From: john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)
Subject: Re: ASP: Porn Films, Prostitution, Abortion and the US Constitution
Date: 05 Dec 1998 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <F3IKCv.B9D@world.std.com>
References: <9237-3665425D-11@newsd-122.bryant.webtv.net> <366a0690.34492653@news.primenet.com>
Organization: Johns & Call Girls United Against Repression
Newsgroups: alt.sex.prostitution

Original Copy in Dejanews : click here



In Message-ID: <366a0690.34492653@news.primenet.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sex.prostitution
Subject: Re: ASP: Porn Films, Prostitution, Abortion and the US Constitution
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 03:40:05 GMT

davephx@primenet.com (Dave in Phoenix) wrote:


> NashvilleStud@webtv.net (Tennessee Stud) wrote:
>
> A lot of good points.....
>
> > why is paying for sex wrong?? Doesn't this violate separation of church
> > and state, since prostitution's "immorality" is based solely on
> > religious grounds?
>
> And what religion? In the U.S. the majority religion is Judeo-Christian
> but there is no conflict with prostitution in Jedeo-Christian biblical
> teachings. Only the false TRADITIONS that have no biblical basis.
>
> > I find it strange that people (especially women) argue that people
> > should have the right to do WITH THEIR OWN BODIES what they please
> > (abortion, even though this act involves another party: the UNCONSENTING
> > fetus), yet no one rallies to the "Pro-Prostitution" side, which
> > involves only two CONSENTING adults. Kind of a sad, mixed-up state of
> > affairs I'd say.


WHOA!! Hold on there. The fetus is not a person. If we believe in decriminalization of prostitution, then we must respect the right of women to evict (shall we say) an unwanted intruder within her body.


> Actually quite a few of us are being very outspoken pro-prostitution, We
> have a huge web site devoted to it and links to many others as well as a
> Coalition sub section to decriminalize prostitution with suggested public
> information material.


Nobody has been as outspoken on decriminalization of prostitution as myself. I have been knocking myself out since 1962, and I have gone through hell for my efforts. Here is an example:




From: no.ads@my.mailbox (Rev. Billy)
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john1@world.std.com (Fred Cherry) wrote:


> To the overwhelming majority of faggots, any sexually normal person who
> opposes NAMBLA is "A hateful Subhuman", an "Eater of Feces" (whole threads
> have been started about me by faggots bearing those subject titles), or a
> "Sick, rabid beast." And then faggots wonder why there are so many people
> who hate them!


And to the majority of people any place, someone supporting the legalization of prostitution (as you do) is "A hateful Subhuman", an "Eater of Feces" & "Sick, rabid beast."

It appears you only support morality that fills your own pockets.




> The problem is education of the public, especially women (wives) that
> make up close to 50% of the voters. We need to show women why it would
> benefit them to have sex work the honored legitimate legal profession it
> should be.


I fail to see your point here. Look at it this way. Suppose you were married. Would you want your wife taking your hard-earned money and spending on a male prostitute? Let's be fair, now.

Here is something I did to help educate the public. I paid $6,000 toward the speaking fee of Dr. Jocelyn Elders at the First International Conference on Prostitution. Look at this:






In Message-ID: <3324A869.3AE7@paganpleasures.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sex.brothels, alt.sex.prostitution, alt.sex.services
Subject: Prostitution/SexWork Conference
Date: 10 Mar 1997 17:36:01 -0700
Taliesin <taliesin@paganpleasures.com> wrote:


> Thought you might like to know:
>
> The International Conference On Prostitution and sex work sponsored by
> Cal. State University, Northridge and C.O.Y.O.T.E. (Call Off Your Old
> Tired Ethics, a prostitutes and sex workers rights organization) will be
> held March 13 to 16 at the Airtel Plaza Hotel in Van Nuys, CA. The panel
> speaking on pornography includes Nina Hartley, Christi Lake, Mike Horner,
> Stacy Valentine and myself. Speaking on other subjects will be Norma Jean
> Almodovar, Tuppy Owens, Xaviera Hollander, Kathy Willets, Sydney Biddle
> Barrows, Betty Dodson, Juliet Anderson, Annie Sprinkle, Margo St. James
> and Veronica Monet. The keynote speaker for the conference will be Dr.
> Joycelyn Elders, former Surgeon General of the US.
>
> The Porn Panel will be speaking to academics, scholars, and researchers
> who study sex work, and will also speak to the media. You'll probably see
> some of us on TV this week or on some talk shows a few weeks from now.
> Some porn magazines are covering the conference, so look for articles
> about ICOP in a few months.
>
> Also the First International Hookers Ball will be held on the 15th in
> conjunction with the conference.
>
> All of us on the Porn Panel are looking forward to both an educational
> experience and a helluva lot of fun.
>
> Taliesin
> taliesin@paganpleasures.com



I was on a panel titled: "SEX WORK AND THE DISABLED: A FACT RATHER THAN A MYTH." My subject on that panel was: "the perspective from the view of the consumer." Here is an exact transcript of what I said:





Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

I am a client of women prostitutes, commonly known as a "john." I am now 71 years of age and I have been patronizing women prostitutes since the age of thirty.

I have to give you some background about myself so that you may understand exactly how and why I became a john. I was born with a chronic illness known as celiac disease. This is also known as malabsorption syndrome. On June '84 I sued in New York State court for the purpose of having the laws penalizing prostitution declared unconstitutional. I lost the case on the grounds that I hadn't been arrested. Go to any law library and look up the case of Cherry v. Koch, 491 N.Y.S. 2d 934 & Cherry v. Koch, 514 N.Y.S. 2d 30.

The complaint in that case says, and I quote:



b. Plaintiff CHERRY suffers from a medical condition known as malabsorption syndrome (also known as celiac disease).

c. Said medical condition causes plaintiff CHERRY to suffer from emaciation and extreme fatigue, making it impossible for him to engage in normal social activities that lead to meeting women and sexual relationships.

d. After many years of unsuccessful attempts to develop a sexual relationship with a non-prostitute woman, plaintiff CHERRY first had sex, at the age of thirty, with a woman prostitute.

End of quote.


Just to show you how thin I am, when I was 38 years old, I was five feet, ten inches in height and weighed 98 pounds. Now, because I have a low thyroid condition, I have ballooned up to 120 pounds.

Here is another example of a disabled john. This comes from the book: NOT FOR LOVE, by Virginia McManus, pages 150-151 (New Dell Edition First Printing--January, 1964 . Ms. McManus was a schoolteacher who had a friend who was a prostitute. One day the police raided the friend's apartment and arrested Ms. McManus along with the friend. Because Ms. McManus was in that apartment, she lost her position as a schoolteacher. Then Ms. McManus decided that she might as well BECOME a prostitute. Something similar to that happened to Margo St. James. Anyway, here is what Ms. McManus says about one of her clients:

Quote "He was a well-known John in New York; he had a spinal disorder and was quite crippled and it was necessary to go to his home. There would have been no problem had he lived alone, but he stayed with his mother. The mother herself would often place the call for a girl since the man had difficulty holding a phone, and she would answer the door and usher the girl into his bedroom. Afterward she would politely offer a cup of coffee and attempt to make casual conversation. The whole experience was rather ghastly and strained but he paid a hundred dollars and most of the call girls felt morally obliged to see the handicapped Johns and be unusually kind to them." unquote

Now one has to consider that the first edition of this book was copyrighted in 1960, and one hundred dollars was a lot of money then.

Do you realize that each and every one of the parties to that transaction is defined as a criminal by the laws of just about every state in the United States? The mother, in particular, is actually committing the crime of "promoting prostitution" (pimping) which is a felony and can get a person a prison sentence of several years. Just ask Norma Jean.

Let me tell you about some of the experiences I have had. One evening, close to where I live, I saw a young lady just standing around. Well, you know the old saying: "Hope springs eternal in the human beast." So, I sez to her: "Would you care to go on a date with me?" And she replies in the affirmative. Then I sez: "Would you care to go right now with me to my room near here?" And again she replies in the affirmative. So I sez: "I don't suppose you're going with me just because you like my looks." Now to THAT, she replies in the negative. So, now I sez: "Would you like a present?" And she sez "Yes." So I sez, "What would you like?" And she sez: "Twenty dollars." Now, please remember that this was almost thirty years ago. So, don't call me a cheapskate. Then when we went up to my room and I started to disrobe by taking off my shirt, she sez: "I'm not taking all of you money, am I?" I sez: "WHAT!!" She sez: "You've got to eat tomorrow, you know. I don't want you to starve."

That was one of the better experiences I have had. I have had some really bad experiences as well. One time almost forty years ago, I went to a massage parlor. In those days in New York City massage parlors were the place to go when one wanted to find prostitutes. This particular massage parlor had been highly recommended to me. When I went there, I selected what I considered the most attractive woman there. When we got into our private room, I attempted to hug her. She became very indignant. She said: "We don't do that here.!" Now, it's a strange thing about me. I can't just plunge in when I'm having sex. My libido just doesn't work that way. I need to have, as I put it: "A little lovin'." I need to be hugged, and to hug the woman I am having sex with. There is a popular author by the name of Buscaglia who claims that everyone needs to be hugged at least once a day.

I can get along with being hugged once a week. I remember, six years ago, before I had been diagnosed as having a low thyroid condition, I was so ill that I was in constant pain. I hadn't had an erection in weeks. But I still wanted my regular call girl to visit me. This was a relationship that started out as a call-girl, client relationship and grew into a genuine love relationship. Now at that time, I wanted her to visit me just to hug me and talk to me, even though sex was then impossible for me. She kept begging me to go to the Mayo Clinic, and eventually persuaded me to go there. That was where my thyroid condition was properly diagnosed.

Two years previous to that, when I was in relatively better health, She asked my what I wanted for a birthday present. I said: "All I want is a little lovin'." She must have misunderstood me to have said: "a little oven" so she bought me a microwave oven.

Now, I don't know whether or not she misunderstood me, but I do know that she bought me a microwave oven, and that was just what I needed. So, I decided to buy her a computer. She was a part-time prostitute. In addition to prostitution, she was working in another occupation. So, I felt that she could use a computer in her other field of work. This was 1989. I owned an Apple IIE and I was running CP/M. CP/M used to be THE system for personal computers before the IBM personal computer came on the market. So, I was so much in love with this woman that I wanted to get her the best available computer. I bought twin computers, one for her and one for me. I bought IBM PC's with the 386 microprocessor running at 20 megaherz. That was just about the fastest and most powerful personal computer available then.

I got far more from that purchase of computers than she did. I had been working for over two years trying to solve a mathematical problem. With the aid of my IBM PC I was able to generate two mutually orthogonal DIAGONAL Latin Squares of order ten. This had never been done before. The result was published in a mathematical journal.

The reason I bother to mention this is that this accomplishment gave me a tremendous boost in my self-esteem. Before I had done this, I used to think of myself as a rich bum. Now, I can truly call myself a mathematician, even though I only have a bachelor's degree in mathematics.


I am more than just a john. I am an ACTIVIST john. I began my activities in 1962. I was then a member of the American Civil liberties Union. The New York branch held a meeting which they advertised as an old-fashioned town- hall meeting at which anyone could discuss any subject. When I tried to advocate that the American Civil liberties Union take up the case for decriminalization of prostitution, I was hooted down, and the moderator of the meeting agreed with the hooter's denial of my right to speak there.

In 1964 I became a member of an organization called the New York City League for Sexual Freedom. This was then an organization of ALL sexual orientations which advocated and demonstrated for the rights of ALL sexual minorities. For example, on 8/23/64, I was the central figure in a demonstration for decriminalization of prostitution. On 9/19/64 I was one of the participants in a demonstration for homosexual rights.

At that time there was only one homosexual rights organization in New York City, namely the Mattachine Society. The next thing that happened was that a large number of homosexuals and lesbians from the Mattachine Society joined the New York City League for Sexual Freedom and took over. They elected their people to lead the New York City League for Sexual Freedom. Under their leadership, the League stopped advocating decriminalization of prostitution and, instead, began to advocate homosexual child-molesting.

That's when I started to be homophobic. I decided, as a means of protest, to mail out a large number of postcards denouncing one of the leaders of the Mattachine Society. I decided to denounce the Reverend Robert W. Wood of the United Church of Christ. He agreed with many people that the world is overpopulated, but then he went on the preach the doctrine of homosexual superiority. He said that God had created homosexuality in order to counter the population explosion. On the way he also said that abortion and sterilization were immoral. And, of course, like many homosexuals, he argued that prostitution was also immoral.

I specifically denounced him for insinuating that Jesus Christ was a homosexual. I think it is obvious that when a Christian clergyman claims that Jesus Christ was a homosexual, that clergyman is claiming that homosexuals are morally superior to heterosexuals.

I have also sent large numbers of postcards denouncing Edward I. Koch, formerly Mayor of New York. Koch wrote a letter which was published in the New York Post on October 19, 1979, page 25. In that letter Koch compared prostitutes to "garbage in the streets" and "odor, disease and rats." And yet Koch did not object to HOMOSEXUAL prostitution. When Frederick Richmond, Brooklyn's notorious homosexual child-molesting Congressman ran for re-election in 1978 Koch endorsed him. This was AFTER Richmond had been arrested for offering money for sex to an underaged boy.

In 1984, as I mentioned previously, I sued in New York State to have the laws on prostitution declared unconstitutional. I hired William Kunstler to represent me. I wish I had been aware at that time of Kunstler's interview in Playboy Magazine of October 1970. In that interview Kunstler denounced Playboy for "degrading" women by publishing nude photographs of them.

Anyway, it is obvious to me and any one else who has any knowledge of law that Kunster deliberately lost that case.

I have appeared on several T.V. talk shows. I appeared three times on the Morton Downey, Jr. talk show. Now, people has criticized Downey, but he always allowed both sides of a controversy to be represented, and WELL represented. Other talk shows only allow one side of a controversy.

In 1984 I appeared on the Phil Donahue talk show. He wouldn't allow me on the panel. Only Downey allowed that. Anyway, I was in the audience and I said: quote "Every sexual activity involving consenting adults is permitted nowadays except prostitution, and I don't think it is fair that we should be the only ones who are still being arrested for what we do in private."

Unquote:

Thank you for your patience and I also want to thank Norma Jean for giving me this opportunity to speak.







> Sadly when the public thinks of prostitution, most just think of street
> hookers. Almost every other country in the world (except Iran and Iraq)
> have decriminalized to some extent sexwork. But street prostitution is
> banned as I believe it should be, other than perhaps in special areas
> like in parts of Europe. We have model ordinances, we address every
> argument we can think of against it, yet the message needs to get out to
> the public...few of whom are reading this newsgroup...but are the voters
> and who are the only ones that can force our repressive laws in each
> state be changed.


I don't see it that way at all. It seems to me that street solicitation for sex should either be banned for everyone or allowed for everyone. Since homosexuals are allowed to solicit for sex on the street, I fail to see why women prostitutes aren't granted the same right.

Well, anyway, let's not argue. If you want to see a website, go to www.freedomusa.org. That's the website of Norma Jean Almodovar.

This week she is in Butte, Montana, visiting the Dumbass Brothel, which is a national landmark (no kidding).

I hope to hear from you soon.


john1@prostitution.org (Fred Cherry)


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